NOTE TO MY READERS THIS IS NOT A HIGHER EDUCATIONAL STEIN LORE PAGE — IT IS JUST THAT THIS GUY MADE ME SO MAD I JUST HAD TO TYPE UP HIS B S AND POST IT, SO YOU READERS MIGHT HAVE A BIT OF UNDERSTAND HOW FRUSTRATRATED THIS JOB [WORK] CAN BE.
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TIIIS DIALOG NOW ALL IN BLUESTARTING HERE IS A COPY OF AN EMAIL I SENT TO SOME FELLOW BEER STEIN COLLECTORS WAY BACK IN 2009 DUE TO SOME RUDE RESPONSES I GOT BACK FROM AN EBAY SELLER WHOM I WAS ONLY TRYING TO ASSIST
STARTED :
For the benefit of those that don’t know and as a refresher to those that may , I have been collecting antique beer steins, beer pokals, beakers, roemers, etc, etc, made by the “Theresienthal Glass Hut, (“T/H”) in Bavaria for at least the last 6 years. [THISWAS ORIGINALLY TYPED IN 2009 I probably have one of the largest collections of T/H pieces here in the USA. I have also assisted Herr Stephen Buse in Germany on his English version of cataloging Theresienthal roemers. [See: http://www.roemer-aus-theresienthal.de/index.html ]
Written by me, what has started out as an article PROBABLY for “Prosit”, has now progressed to a full blown ‘WORD BOOK’ (sans cover) of 131 pages, with now over 266 illustrations of THERESIENTHAL pieces, such as those shown just below:
SO, NOW GETTING TO THE POINT OF THE EMAIL THAT STARTED ALL THIS
The ad pictured below was on eBay (to end on 8-30-09) – I saw the ad (early on the morning of the day it ended) and wrote the seller thinking he / she would / might like to know the correct manufacturer as he /she had it mislabeled , and misdated also!)
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Item number: |
250487207969 |
| Bidding has ended on this item. Item:3 MOSER ENAMEL 1870 COBALT ART GLASS GOLD GOBLET CUPS |
THERE 3 WERE JUST LIKE THIS ONE POSTED IN THE AD
AD ‘ S DESCRIPTION~~~ “NO RESERVE . Here we have a rare collection of 3 Moser ca.1850-70 Hand painted enamel gold gilt Cobalt blue prunted goblets. I sold the matching pitcher to this last week and am now listing the goblets. Here is your chance to obtain some rare examples that rarely come to ebay. The enamel work is fabulous and there is NO gold or paint loss on any of them. The flowers are done with great precision and quality. These are superb and have fine enamel work encircling each one. Each one stands 5 1/4″ tall x 3″ in diameter. Appraised well over $200 each and in superb shape with no repairs or cracks. one has some nibling on the very edges of the foot of the cup. The others have a few nibles on the very bottom. The bases curl inward. This is typical for these as they were used, but no cracks, which means they were taken care. This does not affect value at all NO RESERVE!!!”
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So theEemail JUST BELOW was sent by me to the seller on 8/30/ 09 @ 2:36AM:
| Dear entourage1, You are incorrect about these being Moser – they were made by Theresienthal in Bavaria. Steve Stephen Lee Smith A Stein Collectors International -Master Steinologist and Member No. 0115, Editor; THE PEWTER BEER STEIN COLLECTORS AND RESEARCHERS GROUP NEWSLETTER. Founder: Gambrinus Beer Stein Collectors Club of Va. Md. and DC- 1971 Co-founder;The Beer Stein College – 2002; (www.beersteincollege.com) Contributor; PROSIT (the SCI magazine), The SCI web site?s Library, The Beer Stein Journal, The Classic Collector, The Mid Atlantic Antique Journal. (THE LAST THREE O.O.P.)- dfcsls | ||||||||||||
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And then within a few minutes I decided to offer more assistance so this EBAY EMAIL was sent on 8 /30 @ 2:49PM
| Dear entourage1, .And if you want to know how I know they are Theresienthal and not Moser – send me your email and I’ll send you a research paper on the subject. Steve in VA.- dfcsls | ||||||||||||
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Below is the first answer I got back from the seller “entourage1” 8 /30 (same day)
@ 10:39AM
| Thanks 100% of the bidders know who made these. Moser is close by and they made similar pieces A- entourage1 | Did this answer your question? If not, let the seller know.
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Followed quickly by this answer FROM THE SELLER , 8 /30 @ 10:40 AQM
| Dear dfcsls, Thanks for the info. I just sold a huge decanter from them too. These are probably better then Moser. A– entourage1 | Did this answer your question? If not, let the seller know.
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To which I replied, hoping to get yet one more photographic example of T/H’s work to add to mySO CALLED “book”, on 8/30 @ 1:44 PM:
| Dear entourage1, Yes I saw that you had had a serving piece in this ad. I went to look for it under your completed sales but couldn’t find it. For other collector’s future benefit, can / will you please send me a good photo of it? Thanks in advance. Steve Smith- dfcsls | ||||||||||||
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****************************************************** So BESIDES THE EBAY EMAIL ABOVE AND wanting to add to my Theresienthal collection the 3 beakers of which I had NO examples OF [AT THAT TIME ], I had put in an “esnipe” bid on them – and then
I got the following email from “eESNIPE” on 8 /30 @ 8:16PM
“This email is to report that your eBay bid has been processed by eSnipe’s Rovatron bidding agent. eSnipe was instructed to connect to eBay 6 seconds before auction end to place your bid on this eBay item: Description: 3 MOSER ENAMEL 1870 COBALT ART GLASS GOLD GOBLET CUPS Your Max Bid: Quantity: 1 Auction Item Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250487207969 The Results of your bid: ============================ eBay says seller has blocked you from bidding
eSnipe was able to snipe the bid in the time specified.
However, eBay indicates that the seller on this auction has listed you as an account to block bids. Your bid was rejected.
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So then today, 8/312 5:35PM — (after I took some of our family back to Dulles Airport ) – I sent this email to entourage1
Dear entourage1, I sent in a bid on those 3 Theresienthal beakers and got this back from esnipe – Will you please explain why? “eBay says seller has blocked you from bidding eSnipe was able to snipe the bid in the time specified. However, eBay indicates that the seller on this auction has listed you as an account to block bids. Your bid was rejected.‘
– dfcsls
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I have shown you all and left nothing out.
Maybe it’s my oldER age, and /or the fact that I took this ‘blocking of my bid’ as a personal slam on my integrity ….but I am really pissed!
So TOmy fellow SCI’ers and collecting friends, I ask you:
can you see any reason in what I sent to this individual that would warrant him blocking my bid ??
– which by way would have made him more money than that piddly $228.01 he got for being a “головка пениса”,
(Which is Russian for NOT TOO NICE A NAME .-LOOK IT UP ??”)
I am serious folks — I would like to know your thoughts.
Steve
@ 8:15PM 8/31/09
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BELOW ARE THE Responses I GOT back FROM MY FRIENDS after 8-31-09:
SO I Said “My thanks to all that answered – I feel a bit better now – however I think I’d still like to shove one of those beakers up his –nose ?!”
O Thought you all might like to see what the others (identities not disclosed) have said:
1] Steve,
Well, having dealt with people on eBay myself, I think I have two likely reasons for the block .although bear in mind that I do not think they are either logical or rational.
-The seller may be suspicious as to your knowledge of the items. Most non-collectors may shy away from the fact that there may actually exist some type “research paper.” As a result, rather than dealing with someone who is so forthcoming (just offering honest advice), the seller is opting to be wary of you offering the information. Perhaps the seller is suspicious of being scammed in some way.
– Another reason may be that the person is insulted by their lack of knowledge, and what you know. I have seen numerous items on ebay that are misidentified. I can’t tell you how many common etched steins have been labeled as Mettlach. I often see people inform the seller of their mistakes, but I choose not to. It’s one thing to inform an interested collector, but I why would you want to inform a dealer that you could potentially get a good purchase from. “Never bring food to a buffet”
All that being said, there is no rational reason to block you as a bidder. The seller seems a bit paranoid to me.
I’d love to know their reply.
[2]
Steve
Beats me .I thought you were more diplomatic than I’ve seen in other ebay encounters you’ve had.
[3]
I think your subject line says it all. You might want to file a protest with ebay, although I don’t know what good that would do,.
[4]
Some are sicker then others. That’s all I can say.
[5]
Not that it matters –concerning what the guy did– but I do not think your words warranted his rejection of your bid. It appears from his brief comments that he knew you were right and he was just being spiteful because he was called on the error.
[6]
Hi Steve, Many years ago, a close stein collector friend explained to me that most antique dealers do not wish to be educated or challenged on their merchandise. It took me many years and some ridiculous debates, to finally come to that same understanding. Over 90% of dealers take our education as a personal attack on their knowledge of the business. I never try and tell a dealer what he/she has any more. It is like shooting yourself in the foot.
[7]
Stephen Lee: This sez it all:
| Thanks 100% of the bidders know who made these. Moser is close by and they made similar pieces As you know, I’ve been in the antiques restoration and selling business since 1970, and run into this mind-set occasionally (and bear in mind that folks are voluntarily bringing me pieces to be restored – I’m not out there hustling work). The mind-set I’m referring to is that some people have already deceided in their minds long before thay ever show up at my shop, about the ‘history’ and provanance of the item they are hauling in to be restored, even tho the piece speaks for itself (after almost 40 years in this racket, I’ve gotten pretty good at guessing the age of a piece, and somewhat less so about who made it, or where it was made). It’s very hard to convince these folks that a piece they think was made in the mid-1700s was actually a factory-made piece from the late 1800s, because they already made their mind up long before they ever walked into my shop. It’s human nature to want your ‘treasure’ to be older, and therefore more valuable (not always so, as rarity, not age, dictates the worth of a piece), than reality proves it actually is. Blame it on ‘family history’ – usually verbal (ever play ‘telephone’ when you were a kid?), but rarely documented. Almost all families do this, but memories fade, and history sometimes takes a back seat to reality. As I said, the piece speaks for itself, no matter how much one might wish it to be different. I think what’s happened here, is that this seller already had made up his mind long before you contacted him about his ‘goblet cups’. It could have been other dealers at the nearby flea market that he frequents, or it could have been the mysterious appraiser he mentions in his auction write-up. In any event, these ‘experts’ not only told him what the ‘cups’ (jeez !) were worth, but who made them. In this case Moser – who pretty much has all the interesting and decorated glass attributed to him by neophytes. It happens to me with furniture: You’d be amazed at how many pieces Chippendale made, according to my clients – even tho Thos. Chippendale only made English furniture, that rarely ever made it across the Big Pond to the ‘Colonies’. So: Bottom line: This seller took great offense at you challenging his ‘knowledge’ regarding decorated German glass (even tho you were nice, for a change), and slapped a “no bid” against you. Past experience has long since taught us that there are a lot of Looney-Tunes out there on feeBay selling stuff, who are already legends in their own minds, and who take umbridge over being corrected on things. And my guess is that this probably inflamed his righteous hemmoroids even more, since this was probably really rubbing more salt into his sensitivies: Stephen Lee Smith A Stein Collectors International -Master Steinologist and Member No. 0115, Editor; THE PEWTER BEER STEIN COLLECTORS AND RESEARCHERS GROUP NEWSLETTER. Founder: Gambrinus Beer Stein Collectors Club of Va. Md. and DC- 1971 Co-founder;The Beer Stein College – 2002; (www.beersteincollege.com) Contributor; PROSIT (the SCI magazine), The SCI web site?s Library, The Beer Stein Journal, The Classic Collector, The Mid Atlantic Antique Journal. (THE LAST THREE O.O.P.) Some folks just don’t want to be told they’re dumbshits, and that’s just the way I read it. |
[8] = Stupid is as stupid does.
[THIS WAS THE END OF FIRST ROUND
SO HERE’S THE NEXT EPIODE AGAIN ALL TRUE = ON OR ABOUT 4-28, 2010
I WASN’T ANYWHERE NEAR FINISHED WITH THIS EBAY SELLER YET .THE NEXT AD I SAW BY HIM WAS SOMETIME LATER WHICH WAS TOTALLY WRONG AGAIN !!! S
sO I sENT THIS and I WAS TIRED OF BEING NICE.
From: dfcsls To: entourage1 Subject: dfcsls has sent a question about item #250604057071, ending on Apr-04-10 12:28:47 PDT – GERMAN HANAU 800 SILVER REGIMENTAL MILITARY GOBLET 1862
Sent Date: Apr-02-10 06:19:52 PDT
Dear entourage1,
Once again you have proven to be a STUPID (or lying) ebay seller – the piece is
marked with THE crescent and crown and 800 and can be no earlier (than say
1886-7) when that STANDARD went into mandatory effect in 1888! And all the
following is BS! [‘This incredible masterpiece of German silver was made by
Simon Rosenau for the Royal
Bavarian Court between 1862-1872.’]
HAVE A GREAT
DAY, AGAIN
Stephen Lee Smith
A Stein Collectors International, Master Steinologist and Member No. 0115,
Editor; THE PEWTER BEER STEIN COLLECTORS AND RESEARCHERS GROUP NEWSLETTER.
Founder: Gambrinus Beer Stein Collectors Club of Va.
Md. and DC-
1971
(http://gambrinussteinclub.us/)
Co-founder; The Beer Stein College – 2002; (www.beersteincollege.com)
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to which he replied back to me and I had to laugh at part or most of this:
Dear dfcsls,
Once again you prove to be a jerk off!
Stop writing me. I don’t want to see your ugly talk or message to me again or I will contact ebay. Your a ridiculous Bored, person who has nothing better to do. You really have done a lot for mankind. I have heard nothing more Stupid then stein college and any idiot who collects steins. Get a life buddy. Do not write me again or you will be suspended and I will have your Stein license revoked.
NOW (IN 2013 WHAT I FIND GREATLY AMUSING IS THAT THIS SELL ER IS STILL SELLING HIS STUFF ON EBAY AND HAS A FEEDBACK RATING OF 4589/ MUST BE SELLING TO PROPLE EVEN BELOW HIS IQ LEVEL !!
A sign In a Chinese Pet Store: “Buy one dog, get one flea.”
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