Answers to “beer stein” questions of interest. [2]

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PLEASE NOTE:

I DO NOT DO VALUE ($$$’s) APPRAISALS! There are way too many variables: condition, location, time of year, present trends in stein collecting, local (and now national) economics,  never seen before (therefore no comparables); but most of all = prior expectations by the owner, are among the reasons!

I have for over a year now placed these short “notifications” at the bottom of each page! It is now obvious to me the general public never gets that far before wanting to ask me a question on beer stein dollar values. So I have had to move them forward as I am getting tired of copying them and sending them back to people as an answer to their “stein value?” questions. This was meant to be an informational web site only.

NOR WILL I KNOWINGLY DO ASSESSMENTS for the future selling of steins on auction sites such as eBay, etc. Go to the web site for “Stein Collector’s International” and click on “Stein Talk,” someone there might help you. I just do not have the time. My web site was really started as an informational site for beginning beer stein collectors that would be looking for the info and not the general public.

My site has its own search engine [top right on each page!] SO if one put in “Wood Steins” or “Hand painted steins,”  it will give one a list of all the pages that has that subject matter within it.

STILL WISH TO CONTACT ME ABOUT ANY INFORMATION  ON THIS SITE?  EMAIL:  STEVE (STEPHEN)  = thevirginian@cox.net

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PAGE 2  =  And a reminder from Page 1 = Here is the deal with the beer stein questions folks:

Don’t ask the questions………if you don’t want to hear the answers! Steve

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A quick summary of the “subjects” of questions found  below – ONLY ON PAGE 2:

[15] Large wooden stein from Estonia.

[16] Manusov’s Character Stein (ECS-181), Elf or Gnome or what ?

[17] A F & M, N pewter stein, discoloration of the pewter.

[18]  A F & M, N pewter stein, worn copper plating.

[19] English hallmarks on silver tankard – BUT one mark is missing.

[20] An older German silver shooting prize stein.

[21] “Betty Sue’s Pottery Barn” stein . (Stein collector’s have got to start somewhere, but probably not here!)

[22] Just the opposite of [21]. A really nice piece surfaces.

[23]  A newer fayence (English: faience) beer stein.

[24]  A large nicely done pottery relief Wine/ Punch bowl (by Gerz)

[25] An American pyrographic beer stein.


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[15] I recently bought a wooden beer stein.  I am typically not into steins but this one impressed me with the accuracy used to make it.  It is all very tight and decorative.
I know that you do not appraise steins but I would like to know if it was old.  And if you thought it was worth researching the value of, or just something to sell in a yard sale or on e-bay.
Thank you for your time. I looked at the pictures on your sight and I can see why people collect them.  You have some pictures of some beautiful steins.  I didn’t know they existed, most of what I see are cheap looking ceramic ones.
What a neat hobby collecting the wooden ones.   Thanks again , “R”

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Sent to R:

NOR WILL I KNOWINGLY DO ASSESSMENTS for the future selling of  steins on auction sites such as eBay, etc.  Go to the web site for  “Stein Collector’s International” and click on “Stein Talk” someone there might help you.

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I appreciate your quick response.  I am attaching photos.  I couldn’t find a makers mark on it.  I have only had it a couple of months and I was looking at it sitting on my dresser yesterday and thought that it might be neat to find something out about it.  I only have two other steins (They are military some military ones)  I have had them about a year.  They are ceramic with a naked lady in the bottom of them and the unit information and logos on the side. They are probably the only ceramic ones I would buy but the wood ones that is a different story.  For some unknown reason I love the craftsmanship in it.    If it turns out to be an e-bay or yard sale value.  I will keep it on my shelf.  If it is something rare I shall have to look into how to keep the wood at the right moisture (not to dry or humid) a guitar (worm) might work.
Then I shall have to decide where to display it where it won’t get damaged, or to loan it to a museum, or to sell it to someone who could take excellent care of it.
I doubt it is worth a ton of money, from what I see it is pretty unusual, however, if it were to be I would not guarantee I wouldn’t sell it.  (I live very rural and I have been looking for a job for a year)

At this time I love the piece just because I think it is neat.  Unlike the military ones that I bought for the history and the cool logo.  The craftsmanship on this is superb .  I enjoy it sitting on my dresser.  It makes me smile to look at it.

It is up to you if you answer or not.  I have stated my case honestly.  I appreciate that you were willing to write me in the firs place.  I have not used a computer much and I have a really hard time negotiating it.  I look on E-bay but do not have an account to buy (nor the money at this time) but I do enjoy seeing what they have and how much it sells for.  Not just steins, I like old tools, weird art, and many other things.

I would like to know where my stein was from, what era, and if it was craftsman made or mass produced.  I saw a picture of another neat one it was out of the 1920’s but it had some sort of snake or sea serpent for the handle.  I thought mine might be from the same era but I am quite new at this.

I guess I’ll quit rambling.  I am sure you are a busy man.  I appreciate your polite letter and I understand completely if I do not hear back from you.
I am still attaching the photos. You might enjoy looking at them.
Thanks again
“R”

P.S.  The white thing is a ruler on the table.  I read that they were wrapped in willow?  This is wrapped but it is made out of a bunch on narrow pieces I on not sure how they are kept together.  Surely it isn’t just the wrapping?  Do they glue it, or is it some sort of  Tonge and groove?

PROVIDED PHOTOS:

PHOTO  1

Hello Ms. R. I am 95% certain you stein was made in Estonia, on The Baltic Sea, (the other 5% would it being made on the other surrounding  states of Estonia, close to the border.)

The horse’s head for a handle top and the large perforated finial on the bottom of the handle are the two main determining factors here.

PHOTO 2

“Moderately nice” workmanship when compared to the much older Estonian pieces (see one below.) Not signed, but probably made in Tallin, the Capital, for the tourist trade. I have no idea what the 6 sided star on the lid means in Estonian culture outside of a stock “star” design.

BALTIC WOODEN STEIN = ESTONIA N – HAND CARVED.  CA.  1800 [FWTD]

PHOTO 3

PHOTO 4

Based on the two photos above, which show, when blown up, very little wear on the bottom and a very clean inside, I would estimate that this piece was made about the 1950-60 era. It probably was never used, as there is no indication of any wood staining by any liquid ever being inside of it. Probably it sat on the buyer’s shelf at home, just for the memories of the trip.

“If it is something rare I shall have to look into how to keep the wood at the right moisture (not to dry or humid) a guitar (worm) might work.”

Having no musical background, I have no idea what “a guitar worm” is all about and  a quick “Goggle” search didn’t help at all.  My thoughts are that if it hasn’t been used  and without any liquid left in it, it should remain in its present condition for a long time.

Also Ms. R,  Reference your comments:

I only have two other steins (They are military some military ones)  I have had them about a year.  They are ceramic with a naked lady in the bottom of them and the unit information and logos on the side.

On My web site, please see: Reservist’s (Regimental) reproduction beer steins. How to tell. [1]..  through [4] = (4 pages worth.) Any other questions, please email me. And happy collecting should you wish to get into the wooden steins! They are a subject area not much has been written about.

Steve

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[16] From: “TAH”      To: Steve Smith
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 1:38 PM
Subject: Latest purchase – gnomie

(Again: No “Hello”, “hi”, “get bent”  or anything!  But then I somewhat know this dude!)

Manusov sez it’s an elf (ECS-181); I say it’s a gnome. What’s your take on it?

Also, he’s carrying a ring of keys in his right hand – any idea of who he may be?

Photo from website.

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Well to me it depends or where, geographically, the word Elf was being used!

Elf is mostly a Scandinavian and English word for “the little guys “- see: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/elf

 

 

Germany only had, way back then …and even now: [1] the dwarfs (little people were mostly called this) who lived underground in the forests and worked in the mines, [2] the zwergs (our gnomes) lived around the houses and folks..,.. called ‘zwergs’ mostly now in German garden statues and, [3] ‘Heinzelmänchen’ (which were either / and / or all of them.


…..who lived underground in the forests and worked in the mines…”

Shown: A large hand carved wooden mirror, Circa 1840-60, originally from a Miner’s Guild, unknown city, showing  “Dwarfs”: as miners. One with  a Roemer(wine) and the other with a mug (beer.) [FWTD] I imagine that some of the Northern / Baltic Sea Germans used “Elf ‘, but most of the main line Germans, especially living on the southern mountains and forests would have used “Dwarf” = “Sneewitchen and the 7 Elves”, just doesn’t hack it!

any idea of who he may be? =

My thought on this is that this depiction is a “hold over” from the European dark ages and medieval times when there were real dwarfs (as we Americans call the live little guys = midgets) at the Courts and they were entrusted with the keys of the house, including the wine cellar! [see below photo of the old cast iron door stop; “The keeper of the keys”]

Of course the most famous was “Perkeo” (see the new, to me,  photo just below – I have never seen this rendition of him),  but I don’t see any keys in this rendition; of course they might be hidden. Your stein is certainly not “Perkeo” based on all the photos I / we  have seen.

Perkeo photo from a Heidelberg web site.

Steve

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[17] Steve, I’m a retiree/novice collector who could use your help. The attached link is to a pewter stein that I bought on eBay. The link has lots of hi-resolution pictures for you to look at.  My question concerns the external finish. It’s unevenly oxidized. I’d like to darken the shiny areas so that the finish would be more uniform.  Can I …or should I …do anything?

Finally, I’d like to thank you in advance for your help. You have a great website. And if the stein is a reproduction or if there are other reasons to avoid this stein, or steins of this type, that’s fine …publish the information.
Regards,   Art

The stein shown in the link, enlarged to show the oxidation on the body.

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Hello Art, and thanks for the email, the photos, and the compliment. It is interesting if you now go to this page on my site: “Answers to “beer stein” questions of interest. [2]”
you will see your (now posted) email comes on the heals of another question [#17] about the same stein maker, same mold but with a different scene. Certainly it is no reproduction. It was made by the firm “F & M, N”

Taken from my Compendium page:  “F” :

F & M, N – The  symbol / mark of Felsenstein & Mainzer, Nurnberg. A well known pewter stein and pewter beaker production company. See: http://www.steinmarks.co.uk/pages/pv.asp?p=stein1

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It is one of a small series of steins, all easy to note by the big “Bock” (rams) head thumblift.

As to your question of fixing it up: “I’d like to darken the shiny areas so that the finish would be more uniform.”
Art, I really have to disagree with that approach. Look at the photo above.These steins were originally made with varying levels of shiny untouched pewter and then acid stained sections. The Germans for some reason liked this contrast and 1000’s were made this way – they still are today.This contrast is shown on the shown stein’s body from the top on down . Yours’ however has some interesting “stuff” on the body’s top section (which by the way I have never quite seen before) which is supposed to be shiny pewter, as it is on the lid just above it.
My best “SWAG’ for the discoloration is that the engraver, who would have had the stein sometime after the stein was made, put a lacquer over that section –  and who knows for what reason?! Lacquer on any metal will oxidize under the lacquer over a long enough time period and make quite a mess. This oxidation is fairly easy [? = everything is relative] to take off on silver, brass and copper steins but with pewter it appears you may have to do some serious scrubbing to get it up to what I think it should look like.

If  however you are not inclined to put much effort into the restoration (which I think would be a shame, but I can understand! Most of my friends think I’m nuts spending the time I do to clean and shine up all my metal stein.) but if you still want to blacken the finish (AND  RUIN THE VALUE OF THE STEIN) here is the site for a pewter blackener. http://www.jaxchemicals.com/jaxshop/shopexd.asp?id=61
And please note: There is not going back, once this stuff is applied, it will not come off 100%.

If however you’d like to bring it back close to it’s original  beauty then I refer you to my page on how to: http://www.steveonsteins.com/how-i-clean-old-copper-brass-pewter-and-silver-10-20

Any other questions, or further clarifications,  please do email me. Steve

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[18]   Email  subject: Falstaff Copper Beer Stein, silvered interior, wine festival, relief wrap, photos

(No “Hello”, “hi”, “get bent”  or anything!)

Photo improperly named Apple Orchard. There is no F & M over N on the bottom, Where can I find out more about this stein and rarity and value Hard to find info on the net about this stein.
Thank you,   Paul

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Hello Paul ,

“There is no F & M over N on the bottom,”
By this, may I assume you read my article, which shows the identical F &M, N  stein body, thumblift and lid, but it has a different main scene?

http://www.steveonsteins.com/falstaffbeer-steins-not-as-english-as-one-might-think-10-31x [or] http://www.steveonsteins.com/wp-admin/post.php?post=10223&action=edit

This notice is on every one of my pages:  Please note: I DO NOT DO VALUE ($$$’s) APPRAISALS! There are way too many variables: condition, location, time of year, present trends in stein collecting, local economics; but most of all = prior expectations by the owner, are amongst the reasons!

Your stein is made of pewter that has been copper plated. You can see where it is wearing off on the left side (facing the stein.) The inside, that you called silver is not, it is just shiny pewter.

If you want a free $$ appraisal go to “Stein Talk” at http://www.steincollectors.org/

Perhaps some of the members will oblige. SLS

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[19]   Hello Steve, Could you give me any information on the touch marks in the photo? If better photos are needed I will mail.

Thank you,   Mr. A

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Hello Mr. A

There is every indication, but one, that this piece was made in London in 1856-57 by the firm of Thomas Henry Francis and Frederick Francis.

It has a later imported silver “tax mark” from the Netherlands  =The Crown with the V below.

What concerns me the most is that this does not have the required stamped mark called the “Leopard’s Head.” This is the most important of all the marks on English silver and has been on every piece of silver as far back as the 1500’s. See the photo (BELOW)

Is there another stamping somewhere else on the piece that shows thIS mark ?   It just could have been a case of what we now call “Friday afternoon work”, but that would be pretty rare.

All the other marks look 100 % authentic.           Steve

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Hello Steve,

I have attached some photos of the tankard that I need assistance in identifying the age and maker. I sent you some photos of the same a few weeks ago. Email if you need something more.

Sincerely    Mr. A

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Mr. A, The photos you just sent me shed no  ore light on the problem of the missing hallmark ……….. so what I emailed  to you last, still stands:
There is every indication, that this piece was made in London in 1856-57 by the firm of Thomas Henry Francis and Frederick Francis. It has a later imported silver “tax mark” from the Netherlands (The Crown with the V below.)”

My ” SWAG” is that the silver for this piece was given to the sliver-smiths  by the owner and the firm then  would not guarantee that it was of  “Sterling” quality. It is the only reason I can come up with.

And  to be technically correct my young friend, please use the words “Hallmarks” on silver items, and “Touch marks” on pewter.     Steve

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[20]     Hi Steve,

I ran across your website today while trying to research a stein I have . It has been in my family as long as I can remember and I am 57 yrs old. I have pulled it out periodically over the years and have often wondered about it. Many years ago (before I knew better) I tried to clean it up.
We are cleaning the basement to move and I  pulled it out once again. I have been looking on ebay and everywhere on the internet to see if I see anything like this and have had no succsess.

On the bottom it is stamped 800 and there is the lion but no crown, it stands about 11 inches tall and weights 464 grams. MY husband knows a little german and says it appears to be something won in a shooting match from the engraving on it the date is 1885. You seem to have a passion for steins and thought you might know more about this one.

If you are not interested in answering this email I understand I just thought I would take a chance. I would welcome any information you may be able to provide! I took pictures and have tried twice now to attach and haven’t had any luck! I don’t know much more about the computer than I do about steins!

Thank You,    G W

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Hello  G W,   I would certainly like to see it and have the chance to help you out.

If you have ‘Outlook Express’ all you have to do  is click on the “paperclip” –  on the icon row,  at the next to the  top row (next to the “spell check”) — that will open  a window that says “look in” —  then  scroll up or down to the file your photo is in,  and then left click on the photo, —  it will have  to be repeated each time for  other photo.
The photo should then show in the “Attach” line of the email , which will suddenly appear,  just under the “Subject” line.

Steve

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Subject: German Silver Stein
Hi Stephen,

Thanks for getting back to me, I was wondering if you got my email back with pictures the other night. I assume you you are talking about the marks on bottom. I just tried to take a pictures and I attached one, however I really don’t think you can see the lion only the 800. It is like a lion standing on its hind legs. I saw it pictured on one of the web sites of german silver markings. But almost all of them say that there is a lion  and a seperate  crown (i think thats what it said) but there is no crown just the lion. Does that help at all.. If you have any more questions that would help you let me know. Once again I appreciate anything you can tell me!

Thank You
G W

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Okay, here we go Ms. G

[1] First to the marks: The reference your read about the Crescent moon, the Imperial Crown (in miniature) and the Quality numerical = mostly .800 was correct – to a point!

The German silversmiths prior to 1888 used a cumbersome system called “Loths”  which was 16th based, not 10 based or even 100 based

For example if a silver  piece was marked “14 Loths,” that meant it had 14 / 16thsilver in it or  .875  guaranteed silver content (the rest was mostly copper for strength.)  15 Loth = .9375.    Sterling = .925,  was never used in any European county except England.

Everyone  in Germany wanted and needed  a better system, so a law was passed that on Jan. 1st 1888 everyone would be required to use  [1] the Crescent moon, [2] the Crown and  [3] the Quality numerical. But they didn’t say that the Smiths couldn’t use the numerical system before then. As everyone agreed the old system was cumbersome, many of the silver-smiths used the .800 mark before the laws took effect. As your stein is dated 1885, that is the case here.

The lion standing up on its legs is the City mark for Heidelberg at that time.

[2] As the stein was made in the great city of drinking – Heidelberg,  it figures as that part of the inscription says it is a shooting prize from the “10th Wurtt. (Wurttemberg) ‘Country-side’ shooting contest.”

These shooting awards were usually sponsored by someone or a group. In this case it was “von Carl Freiberr von Palm,  in Wühlhausen a/ Neckar  [or]  “From Carl Freiberr from Palm**,  in Wühlhausen, a very small town on the Neckar River, located northwest of Heldelberg, which is also on that river.  (Years ago in the Air Force “Himself”  had one hell of a good time in another small town just SW of H’berg on the Neckar!)

** [I couldn’t locate this place: as Palm or Pahn; it may have been a town / cross roads that has ceased to exist since 1885 (as the USA is not the only country that has ghost towns!]

Now shooting prizes are by no means rare., or even scarse. It appears almost every major city had a contest every year. A lot of the prizes were stoneware steins and some were made of pewter – depends on how “rich” the contest was and the total value of the entry fees collected.

Off the subject: A few months back I picked up a grand (great, not dollar amount) pewter shooting prize. For a shoot, in what was Denmark at the time- 1770 [see photo attached] and the town is now in Germany after they invaded in 1866 and claimed the land to be theirs.

Should you for some reason wish to sell this piece I’d be happy to give you my offer. Having some 94 Old German and Sterling silver pieces in my stein collection now…… I really don’t “Need” another one, but…!

Or you may wish to get an estimated sales price through one of the Auction companies listed on my “Stein links” page: http://www.steveonsteins.com/links

Just be aware that they all take a healthy chuck out of your sales commission to help pay for their expenses, shipping -both ways sometimes, cataloging, storage, and of course their profit.

If you need more info or I forgot something, please do write me
back.  Enjoy.     Steve

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[21] Steven,  (SIC – See below**)

We are a small ebay business who purchases items from garage sales, estate sales, etc. Sometimes we run across items that we are not able to pin down their value. Although you do not place a price or value on an item, we would appreciate any information that would help us in researching the price or value on this particular item. Attached are some photos of our item. We believe this item to be a beer stein. It is 18 inches tall and believe that it is either ceramic or muted porcelain. Thanks for your time and knowledge.
Sincerely,
E R

Now this flagrant violation of my given name really does continue to torque me off!  My name is ” Stephen,” not Steven!

I was named by my father after the First Saint in the Roman Catholic Church. If you don’t know anything about him or Catholicism that is okay as there were of course other famous Stephens in our World’s and America’s  History, not the least of which was a damn King Of England!

Other famous Stephens that one might recognize include:
•Stephen King – fiction author of many books of suspense and horror. Many of Stephen King’s books have been made into movies, some of which he makes cameo appearances.
•Stephen Colbert – the host of Comedy Central’s “The Colbert Report”
•Stephen Hawking – (born 1942), British theoretical physicist
•Stephen F. Austin (1793-1836), Empresario that settled Texas
•Stephen Crane (1871-1900), American novelist a journalist
•Stephen Foster (1826-1864), known as the “Father of American music”

[end]

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Detail

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Hello Mr. R., and thank you for emailing me.

What you have is a home made American  “craft” item. These are made in molds at most “Learn how-to-do-it” pottery shops. It is of course “new’ and very low end of interest for any serious beer stein collector. For what it is worth, the painting is actually one of the best I have seen on such a piece. It would be much better advertised on eBay (etc) as a Home decorator; for the mantle or hearth or a large picture window.

Good luck in your business,

Steve………, aka: “Stephen”

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[22]

Steve,
Please tell me something about this stein that my Dad had in his  collection. I believe he brought this home with him in 1947 from   Bramerhaven.  Under the lid it has a mark,  8.31.  the bottom has Musterschutz 8.31.
I can send more pics if you want.

thank you
Louis C
Houston, Texas

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Hello Louis,

[1] The word “Musterschutz” simply means the design was registered in Germany’s equivalent to our Patent Office.  I don’t know what the 8.31 means, but  it certainly is not the date, as their was no longer a Kaiser in 1931.

[2] Your stein is bust of Kaiser Wilhelm II, in a German Guard de Corps uniform.

[3] Your stein was made by a firm called “Schierholtz.”

Please see brief history at my buddy Chris Wheeler’s  web site = http://www.steinmarks.co.uk/pages/pv.asp?p=stein231

[4] It is so popular that it was  reproduced by the same firm back in the 1980’s I think – see attachment. Not even close to your original in quality!

 

[5]  I have been searching for a comparable sales price in one of the two of the major stein auctions.
As I am not a character stein collector and have not been following their prices, AND as most everything in our economy, stein prices / values have slipped a lot over the last 5 years!

As I said, if it is in excellent condition it is a very desirable piece!  Not that you asked, but I am taking a SWAG and saying it should realize a “hammer price” somewhere around $800 to $1K  ………. BUT don’t quote me!

It is probably one I would like to be able to afford; if I wasn’t buying a tall, nicely done, German silver coin tankard right now @ $10K!.

I suggest you contact either of these two companies for an up to date estimate (copied from my site’s “links page”, should you lose this somehow)      http://www.steveonsteins.com/links

“MY RECOMMENDED LINKS. “

** STEIN AUCTIONS.  **   [In no particular order]

The  Stein Auction Company: http://www.garykirsnerauctions.com/

This company charges 15%,  or a “minimum charge” of $60.00 per lot price sold.  So if your piece sells for $100 you’d get $40 back.

Ron Fox Auctions: www.fox auctions@yahoo.com

This company charges only 15% of the lot price sold. Same sale as above, you’d get $85.00 back

DR. Fischer’s, Germany: http://www.auctions-fischer.de/auktionen/auktionen.php
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Just for” shits and giggles” (mine), I searched through the auctions held by one of the major stein auction companies above and found these results:

July 3, 2007
October 12, 2008
October 5, 2009
September 8, 2010
October 19, 2010
November 19, 2010
February 17, 2011
March 28, 2011
May 5, 2011
June 5, 2011

IN ALL THESE AUCTIONS THERE WERE ABOUT 5,500 LOTS OF WHICH AT LEAST 75% WERE STEINS (PLAQUES, VASES, HUMMELS , TOBACCO JARS, ETC, WERE IN  THE 25 %)  [opps …cap lock was  on  – sorry]

So of the 4,100 of so steins listed over four years,  your dad’s stein was not shown once!

Please let me know how you make out as far as the quote is concerned

Looking forward to seeing the other photos,

Steve

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[23]    Date =??

Hi:

We found this stein in my father-in-law’s estate items. Not looking to sell it or anything, my wife just wants to know about it. Wondering if you could help us identify this mug or stein by age or maker, or whatever. Don’t care about the value, it’s staying in the family anyway.

It is about 9” tall, not counting the top finial. It has 2 marks on the top of the lid, and those photos are attached.

Don’t know the top & bottom material (metal or pewter, or??)  No other marks on it.  If you can help, there are photos attached. A friend of my father-in-law traveled to Germany years back and we don’t know if it could have come from there or not.

Any help would be appreciated for the family,

Tom  and Sandra  A,  Cincinnati

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Hello Tom and Sandra A.

What you have here is stein with a body made of faience [ENG.]  / fayence [GERM.]. It is a low grade pottery body made with a tin glazed enamel covering, with painted on decor and then muffle fired (very low heat.)

Faience was the German’s answer to imported Chinese porcelain, as they couldn’t figure out how to really make it until the mid  1700’s. They made quality fayence steins for the local markets until about the 1840s (as did the Austrians and etc, etc)

Yours is unfortunately a newer version and was probably made in the 1940- 60 period (revised.)  The metal is as you guessed: molded pewter. The pewter maker’s marks on this piece don’t really mean anything to the older fayence collectors, as the piece is considered “new” and VERY LITTLE  research has been done on most any of the stein lid / body makers after the 1920’s .   It is however a nice decorator piece and I hope you-all do enjoy it.

Please read some more of “Steve on stein”s and perhaps we’ll hook you into starting a collection.  See:  http://www.steveonsteins.com/beer-stein-dictionary-1-4-1-1-5 for more example of “Fayence.

Any more unanswered questions, please do write back.

Steve

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[24] Unknown date

Hi there Steve,

I have this keg that I purchased 8 years ago in Montreal from an antique store that was going out of business. I’ve always wondered what it was (knew it was a drinking vessel/keg of some form, though what exactly I’m not sure) – wein/bier, especially given the fact it has the capacity for ice.  I did do some online searching some years back and came out with very little, this time, I’ve gleaned a lot more.

It was in the shop window and drew me in but the price he wanted for it was way out of my reach.  I haggled with him over months and finally he sold it to me for what he paid.  So, needless to say, I’m not really interest in its value, more its history.  I know it depicts the battle of Teutoburg Forest and that it is a Gerz from around the turn of the 20th century.  As you can see from the pictures below, it is numbered 856B which means there is probably an 856 that is attached to it?  It has been indicated that it may have had cups that came along with it.  I was just wondering if you knew anything further?

I think your collection is spectacular (I love the 4.5L stein that depicts Hermann and Trusnelda’s elopement- WOW and the Saint Hubertus – unbelievable).  As you can tell I’m a little more for the ornate 😉  The kovsh and russian vodka cups really caught my attention, too.

Growing up in England, I remember the tinder – ash can steins that would sit by the fireplace at some people’s homes (wonder if they still have them).

I appreciate any information you can offer. BTW, I really think your website is amazing – job well done, Mikey 😉

Kind regards,
Sam

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Here are the pics:

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Well Sam, I was surprised that Ron (from the SCI web site) didn’t clarify that it was for either German “white” wine or a (what we call) punch.

The Germans have always drunk their beer warm! Plus it is not of a size that would do much for a bunch of really beer thirsty Germans.   Lots of these were used for wine / schnapps  / liquor or any mixture there of = a punch.  I’m not certain from your photo that shows it, if the spout  is level with the barrel? or hangs under it?

See my page:    http://www.steveonsteins.com/pewter-new-adds-to-ss-m-t
9th photo down…………..  for a nice pewter schnapps / brandy server, where it has  to sit on the edge of a ledge.

Curious to know who told you that about the cups?

I am no expert on anything (just an old collector)  and especially pottery wares from Gerz, but I think the “B” indicates it was a later day version of the original #856. If your wine server had had matching cups: [1] there should have been a matching under-plate and [2] I think I might have seen  (and remembered) cups or the under-plate with a matching Hermann motif on them, sometime in the last 15 years, since I’ve been familiar with “stuff’ celebrating his victory, BUT I have not!  (But there is always tomorrow!)

[Later entry: I still do not think this had an un-plate! Most of them have edges that are  turned upwards , and even a bit would make it extremely hard for one to use the spigot and pour the liquid inside  into a cup or glass.]

And for more on the history of how the German’s got to make “white wines” please see my page:  http://www.steveonsteins.com/in-the-near-future-2-1-1-2

I sent your “kudos” along to my son.   And my thanks for your kind words.  It has been a hell of an effort between the two of us getting it going last year, and this mid- month my main drive went “kaput” and I lost scores of photos that I was going to use in the “Compendium.”

Any other questions or questions on any of my pages please do write me.

Do you have any more drinking vessels at your home?    And may I use your question on my site’s page on questions?: http://www.steveonsteins.com/answers-to-questions-of-note?

Steve

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Hi Steve,

Thanks again.

I was actually born in England the same time you started your stein collection club 😉 And, I hear ya on being up with someone at all hours – my 2 year old twin boys take it in turns, so I often have the 4-6 a.m. insomniac episodes where my mind needs clearing.

I got the info re the cups from Ron (SCI web site), he had indicated that he has a collection where the cups and keg were different numbers i.e. 123 and 123A.  He did say it would probably be for wine or punch, but you’d know more. I do believe that this would have had a stand, as the spout hangs below, either that or it would be placed at the end of a table (rather precarious for stoneware though, no?).  It actually holds a little over 16 litres with the ice tank in it and 20 litres without.  That would be a lot of wine or punch, and if not, I need to meet the people that had these in their homes.

I have predominantly collected antiques thus far, however, for the past few years with 3 little ‘ens, I’ve done nothing of the sort.  (BTW Sophia is precious – she must have been born early as she’s a tiny wee thing).

The keg was just something that caught my fancy whilst on a weekender to Montreal and I had to have it.  So, no I don’t have any other steins, (other than ones from Munich’s Oktoberfest of ’96 😉 which hold no value other than memories. But as I mentioned, I think you and Ron have piqued my interest and opened my eyes to an unknown world.  When I told my husband of my new found fascination he asked if he could be part of it, too.  I told him he sure could – I’ll pick ’em and he can pay for ’em…LOL!  I’m sort of kidding (not really), however, since the only beer this house sees is European Imports, I’m thinking real steins will only enhance the experience.  And those vodka cups and kovsh…world look out!!!

I don’t really want to start on eBay as I find it nowhere near as exciting as rummaging through shops and who can’t do without an excuse to travel.  I believe we’re off to England/Ireland in the next year, I’ll start there.  That gives me some time to start doing some research – look through some books, join Prosit, etc.

Of course, you may use my questions for your page; anything to make life easier for someone else going through the same thing. Same with pics, if you think they’d be of any use, absolutely.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Best regards,
Sam

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[25]  Date = ??

Hi Steve, just wondering if you have ever seen a mug  (sic) like this, it is out of wood with a moose on it. would appreciate any information you might have. picked it up at a yard sale and am very intrigued by it.  thanks for your time and your help. Andrea

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Hi Andrea, and thank you for emailing me.

Your piece is not really my “cup of beer,” but here’s what I think =  It is a newer piece done within the last 25 years.

The scene is done with a wood burning tool. Called “pryrography.”  It is a souvenir type of stein. I think it was probably made in the “White Mountains” area of the USA (and possibly up in Canada.)  They are both famous for their Moose.

SEE:    http://www.visitwhitemountains.com/things-to-do/wildlife.asp

If you enjoy it, that all that matters! You don’t have to spend a lot of money to have a “neat” and varied stein collection.

Steve

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Hi Steve, I am in California and wine is my “cup of beer”. Thank you for your input (pretty much what we figured, but were hoping we would be one of the rare finds on Antique Roadshow. I will continue my search, but truly appreciate your expertise and opinions.  What a great hobby you have!  Thank you, Andrea

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“Dumb assed”  letters to me, continued …. from page 1.

1st Email

———- Forwarded message ———-
From: Jeniffer <jramirez0610@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:14 PM
Subject:
To: Tarek Lukye <tlukye@gmail.com>
 (no salutation]

Hi there.  I just acquired these 2 steins and I was doing a little research.  The brown stein is what I am particularly interested in.  This stein was brought to Canada in 1968.  I did some research on the coat of arms and came to the conclusion that this stein was built before 1849, but I am skeptical because it seems to be in too good of shape for being 160yrs old.  I came to this conclusion from the numerous coat of arms changes since the 15th century.  The crown on top of the crest was no longer used after 1849 until it was adopted again in 1990.  The lid seems to me to be older than 20yrs.  Could you help me out with this please.  
Also an appraisal of the 2 steins would be greatly appreciated.  
Thanks    
(No name !! )
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My response:
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:16 PM, Stephen L. Smith <thevirginian@cox.net> wrote:
THIS NOTICE IS ON EACH MAJOR PAGE OF MY WEB SITE:

PLEASE NOTE: I have for about a year now placed these three short “notifications” at the bottom of each page!
It is now obvious to me the general public never gets that far before wanting to ask me a question on beer stein values. So I have had to move them forward as I am really getting tired of copying them and sending them back to people as an answer to their “stein value?” questions.
WISH TO CONTACT ME?  STEVE (STEPHEN)  = thevirginian@cox.net

I DO NOT DO VALUE ($$$’s) APPRAISALS!  There are way too many variables: condition, location (USA or Germany, or the rest of the world), time of year, present trends in stein collecting, local economics; BUT most of all = prior expectations by the owner!  These are all among the main reasons!

NOR WILL I KNOWINGLY DO ASSESSMENTS for the future selling of steins on auction sites such as eBay, etc.  Go to the web site for  “Stein Collector’s International” and click on “Stein Talk,” someone there might be able to help you.  Steve
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11-21  @ 3:58PM  His…. Mr. Lukye’s …..a most heartwarming response:
Hey Steve,
(Well at least this time I have a name)
 I am more interested on your opinion on the beer stein.  An appraisal is not my main concern.  What I was asking you, just by looking at the photos, was is it possible this stein could be over 160 yrs old??  You must have seen numerous steins from mid 19th century era, and could make an estimate on the age.  it must be simple for you, does the stein look to be 20yrs old or 160 yrs old.  It’s a very simple question.  But if you are going to be a fucking asshole about it then never mind.  I’ll merely ask someone else.  You are not the only one in this world that could answer my question.  (unsigned again)

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My response:
From your latest email “An appraisal is not my main concern.”

Then why did you write  this? =  “Also an appraisal of the 2 steins would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks”

And I’m the fucking asshole?

Both your steins are less than 50 years old!

This is on every web page also.
Go to the web site for  “Stein Collector’s International” and click on “Stein Talk,” someone there might be able to help you.


Please have a happy holiday.   SlS

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On 11/21/2011 9:28 PM, T Lukye wrote:

Hey dumdum,

an appraisal is not my MAIN concern. Key word being “MAIN”. Of course it’s still a concern, why wouldn’t it be?  But never was it my MAIN concern. Lol

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My reply: I consider that you are welcome for the lead you were looking for.
Have a great life.
sls

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So my readers, should you ever met with:

Tarek R.H. Lukye P.Eng.Tech
Sun Oilfield Consulting Inc.
Box 218, Brooks AB
T1R-1B3
Workovers/Completions/Abandonments Supervision

Please send him my warmest regards!

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[END PAGE 2 –SOK –  31  – noDD]

WISH  TO CONTACT ME?  STEVE (STEPHEN)  = thevirginian@cox.net

 

“Dogs have masters. Cats have staff!”

 

 

 

 

 

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